Our past is Red and our future is Green
[click on image above to watch the original interview]
Chris Jarvis, Bright Green
I’m absolutely delighted next on Bright Green Live to be joined by Jo Bird. Now, Jo is a Green Party Councillor on the Wirral. She was first elected as a Labour Party Councillor but has since joined the Greens. I wondered if you could just talk us through a little bit why you decided to join the Green Party?
Jo Bird
I joined the Green Party for a variety of reasons, personal and political. I come from a long line of Jewish eco-socialists. My great uncle Wolfie was on the Kinder Scout trespass 90 years ago. I was raised in the Woodcraft Folk with our motto, ‘Span the world with friendship’.
In my early twenties, I was part of Earth First! We took non-violent direct action about roads and airports and defending local Green spaces. Some of us started a housing co-operative in Manchester, which is still going today, working through the Radical Routes network.
For decades, party politics didn’t offer any solutions to the problems that my communities were facing. Political parties were bland, corporate, pro-war, pro-private profit. I put my time and energy in the co-operative movement, helping groups of people to start and run democratic social enterprises, businesses for the common good - such as renewable energy, food, finance, farming, football - in all kinds of sectors.
Then in 2015, Jeremy Corbyn mobilised ‘for the many, not the few’. I was living in Northern Ireland at the time and almost everybody I knew in England was joining the Labour Party. They encouraged me to join and that Labour Party seemed to me to be the best chance in a generation for social and environmental justice. I moved country and stood as a local Council candidate in England in 2018, and was elected in a by-election later that year.
It was quite a journey from Labour to Green. We all went mass trespassing over those years. We went up to the mountain top, and we saw that ‘Another World Is Possible’. No-one can take that away from us. But we were also devastated by the General Election defeat of 2019. We were betrayed by the Tories within the Labour Party. The Forde report and Al Jazeera’s Labour Files broadcast the evidence of that betrayal. They show what we on the left know to be true from our own experience.
During those years, in May 2021, I was re-elected with 61% of the vote as a local councillor. I was like “Oh sugar! What have I got myself into? What the heck am I going to do now?”. Because the Labour Party has turned into crap, particularly under Sir Keir Starmer.
I was suspended twice, I had a dozen disciplinary allegations made against me, smeared in the media by the Labour Party, I was investigated, and I was told to shut up about the racism I faced as a Jewish person – by non-Jewish people. Meanwhile Jewish people were disciplined - like Jackie Walker, recently Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi and myself. Left wing Jews are thirty-one times more likely to face disciplinary action than any other member of the Labour Party.
I won every case, by the way. The Labour Party had to change the rules of and apply the rules retrospectively to finally expel me, which happened in November last year, 2021.
Every day I wake up glad that I am out of that hostile environment. It was a kind of creeping fascism, and still is. To say, ‘no you can’t debate antisemitism or racism, you can’t talk about it, you can’t discuss what’s going on in front of your face and issues that affect your party and your communities’. We have to have freedom of expression, there has to be a time and a place to discuss everything, because that is how progress is made.
Still, large parts of the left are waiting for one year, two years, three years for Jeremy Corbyn to start a new Party. And waiting for members of Unite or Unison to say we want to ballot on our political levy, we want to choose which Party to fund, if any, with our political levy money.
I’m too impatient personally, but the issues our communities are dealing with can’t wait either – the cost of living crisis, the NHS is collapsing, systemic racism, people are drowning in the English channel, and climate change. We can’t wait anymore for another magical Party to appear on the left. Besides which we already have one! I looked around, you know it’s called the Green Party.
Green councillors where I am on the Wirral, voted to save local services, whereas the Labour Party were voting to close the library in my ward and for other cuts. I checked the facts, I had a look at the Green Party website, what Green Party leaders were saying. Actually, Greens are consistently arguing for and promoting social and environmental justice. I thought ‘Yep, that’s what I am about too. And that was the mandate on which I was elected and re-elected to serve my communities.’
I joined the Green Party ten months ago, and it’s going very well. There is not a day that I’m not glad about it. I don’t regret it at all.
Just like over two hundred thousand people that have left the Labour Party. Our past is Red, and I think our future is Green.
Chris Jarvis
There is a lot of things you have talked about that I want to pick up on. The first of that is some of the stuff you talked about there was about the people on the left waiting for a new political party to be set up, or the projects that people are kind of hoping for, and lots of socialists that were in the Labour Party have since either left party politics altogether, or they have joined other smaller kinds of fringe parties, whether that be like the Northern Independence Party, or other small groups.
You chose the Greens, so I wondered if you could delve a little bit more into why you didn’t choose one of those other routes of dropping out of politics or joining one of those other smaller parties.
Jo Bird
Great question. It’s a debate we have been having on the left personally and politically, with family, friends, colleagues, for the last few years. Everyone makes their own choices and we’re not all on the same journey.
I did consider the other options as well, obviously.
The smaller parties have no track record of winning elections. They don’t have any councilors that have won elections, or MPs. They don’t seem to be a credible, viable vehicle, and they are very prone to splitting.
Greens want system change. We want collective solutions to social and environmental justice. So that means we have to work with a lot of people, even those we disagree with on some issues, or have different tactics.
A lot of people have put their time and effort into their Trade Unions, which is brilliant. We are seeing the results of that in the industrial action and strikes taking place in all kinds of sectors, all over the country. What’s missing from most of the Trade Union action there is any political answer as well as an industrial answer. We’re not seeing their political responses.
It’s clearly not tenable to stay in the Labour Party and change it from within. That’s what a lot of people argue, especially if they want more votes within the Labour Party. You know the Labour Party is awful, it’s racist, the disciplinary processes are clearly weighted against natural justice, and that’s all well documented. Also the Labour Party’s policies for when it’s in government, it’s austerity-lite. I actually think our situation will be worse under Labour, because affiliation of some Trade Unions gives the Labour Party cover to do terrible things.
One of the options I looked at was putting my time and energy into single issue pressure groups and social movements, such as the NHS, housing, public ownership.
I’m willing and able to be the public face of a political party, and a lot of people want me to do that, thousands of people voted for me to do that. If I wasn’t working as a front-facing politician, I would be more involved in a single issue pressure group.
I also looked at an idea Ken Loach (How the left can come back!) put out recently, which is to stand as an Independent. He proposed a network of Independent Labour councillors and MP candidates across the country. I was Independent for four months after Labour Party expelled me and had a network of similarly Independent councillors. Only one was elected as an Independent, others had been expelled or resigned. The one was Stephen Smith in Knowsley. He ran and won a brilliant campaign. He is the exception that breaks the rule, along with Mayor Luftur Rahman and the Aspire Party in Tower Hamlets. They’re the only examples in England of independent left candidates who’ve won an election. That shows how difficult it is. I had a lot of conversations people like ‘why don’t you stand for election and be an Independent councilor too?’. In their communities, it is so daunting to stand to get elected. You really do need a tried and tested election machine backing you as well as being part of that community. I don’t think that’s a viable route. Apart from exceptional characters, like Ken Livingstone was elected as Mayor of London. Jeremy Corbyn will undoubtedly win if he chooses to stand again as an Independent.
For most people you need to be part of something bigger. A lot of people have retired or disengaged from party politics, that’s their choice. I’m not a commentator, I’m an activist.
The Green Party is not a pressure group for grumpy people or a therapy session (although political action should be good for mental health and wellbeing). It is a political party. We aim to win elections. We aim to make positive change (and repair institutional injustices). That’s why I joined the Green Party.
Jo Bird
In these debates - I’m sure thousands of people are having across the country – there are a few evidenced reasons people come up with about why they don’t want to support the Green Party. I just want to go through those because I think they are worth nailing. There are about nine.
1. One reason people give for not supporting the Greens is the Greens stand against Labour Party candidates.
Yep, that’s what political parties do if they are serious. In a democracy we aim to stand, to win hearts, minds votes and seats, and to get access to positions of power to make positive change. We believe we can make more of that change through the Green Party than the Labour Party. It’s a democracy. The voters decide who wins, at the end of the day.
2. Another argument is that Greens don’t win MPs.
Yes, it is difficult in a First Past The Post system. The Greens have one MP Caroline Lucas. She’s brilliant and been an MP for many years. Hopefully we'll get more. It takes work, it takes hard work, it's not a glamorous thing. It takes a lot of knocking on doors, putting leaflets through. The Greens have the best chance of winning MPs where the majority of the local wards have voted for a Green councillor. That's the building blocks of winning Green MPs. It's not impossible. Caroline Lucas has showed that it can be done, and hopefully there'll be more, like Carla Denyer in Bristol Central.
3. The third reason is that Trade Unions are not affiliated to the Green Party, which is true, but it's also true of the Labour Party.
Most Trade Unions are not affiliated to the Labour Party. There are 50 Trade Unions that are part of the TUC (Trade Union Congress) and only 11 of them are affiliated the Labour Party. Most unions are not, including the Bakers Union, the RMT, PCS, education unions like the NEU, and health unions like the RCM are not affiliated the Labour Party. Political action does not require that affiliation.
I would hope that the Green Party does allow Trade Union branch affiliation in the future going forward, and that's something we could come back to internally. I think the Green Party would be open to that.
4. The fourth reason is a quite a specific one about the bin strike of GMB members in Brighton.
I don't know what the Green led council at the time (2019) said about how industrial relations managed to get so bad to that bin workers went on strike. It was resolved within three weeks. I don't think there's much defence to that.
5. Fifthly, the lack of diversity in the Green Party leadership
Particularly in the public facing parts of the Green Party at national level. Caroline Lucas MP proposed a cabinet of all white, posh women at one point. She admits she got it wrong, it was a mistake. There were things to learn from that. The Green Party, like all other political parties, need to take a lot more concrete action to increase the diversity of its membership and its representatives.
6. Are lefties welcome?
Ken Livingstone said that he would apply for membership of the Green Party, and then seemed to be refused. I don't know if he did actually apply. Certainly, there is official and widespread welcome for all kinds of lefties, its very apparent to me. I was very welcome, and lots of other lefty people have been welcome too, so I don't think that's a credible barrier.
7. Some people say that the Greens joined in the witch hunt against Corbyn
Every time I ask for evidence of that I don't get any. There were a couple of specific attacks on David Miller and Ken Loach by prominent Greens, and again, when they're asked for evidence there isn't any evidence that is put up. Those kinds of malicious allegations need to stop.
Green Councillors like me are living proof that the Green Party defends - not suspends - former Labour Party representatives accused of antisemitism. Many people in the Green Party have changed their position since the Labour witch hunt was at its peak. Weaponising of deleted tweets in a General Election year against a high profile (Jewish) politician speaking up for Palestinian human rights … that also looks like a witch hunt to me.
8. Disciplinaries and suspensions
Regarding suspensions and disciplinary action within the Green Party, particularly on disagreements on trans rights and sex-based rights. I don't yet know enough of the history of that. But I do know the disciplinary process within the Green Party is a lot better than the Labour Party. In the Green Party, it's much more based on natural justice. It's more human, mediation is an option for example. People talk to each other rather than megaphone allegations at each other.
[9. NATO
In March 2023, Green Party conference voted to abandoned its opposition to NATO. Green Party policy is now very similar to the Labour Party manifestoes of 2017 and 2019 – ie remain in Nato and pursue diplomacy, defence, development and solidarity. Unlike the Labour Party, the Green Party does not support the replacement of Trident with more nuclear weapons of mass destruction – there should be just transition of jobs instead.
NATO and its member’s military forces are some of our planet’s largest destroyers of people and environment. Green policy is to remain and reform NATO. In my opinion, it’d be better for people and planet, as well as more realistic to leave NATO and rejoin it, after NATO has made the reasonable reforms required.]
That's about it. That's a very short list compared to the evidence reasons not to support Labour Party, which we all know very well. I can't actually see any good reasons for not supporting the Greens.
The Green party's number one core value is that “we are a party of social, environmental justice which supports a radical transformation of society for the benefit of all, and for the planet, as a whole.”
If you agree with that then I would say join the Green Party, if you want to be politically active, because together we're stronger.
Chris Jarvis
You've talked quite extensively there about the negative experiences you had when you were a member of the Labour Party. I wondered if you could talk a little bit more about how your experiences as a Green Party member, and a Green Party councillor contrast to your experiences in the Labour Party.
Jo Bird
I've written a popular article for Bright Green about this. Five things I learned since I've joined the Green Party.
1. One is that lefties are very welcome, unlike in the Labour Party where we're blamed, expelled, and candidates are removed. Lefties are very welcome in the Green Party and promoted where we've got contributions to make. For example, I now serve on the Policy and Resources Committee at Wirral Council, where my finance and budget expertise are put to very good use. Whereas Labour was just not interested in promoting me above the ‘back bench’ in any way.
2. The second difference is Greens put evidence before loyalty. There's no whip in the Green Party. You can actually put your local residents first. Green councillors can vote in different ways, as my Green Group has done, and there's no disciplinary consequence to that. In the Labour Party, if you vote against the whip, the party line, then you're disciplined. If you're very loyal then you tend to get promoted into paid positions. That's a key way that Labour leadership exercise power and control. So, Greens have to consider the evidence on every vote or every decision that we make, rather than just being told what to vote for and going along with the Party line.
3. The third difference is that Greens have really good policies, much better than current Labour policies. For example, we're supporting the Real Living Wage, we support frontline services not cutting them. All the stuff around the climate is fantastic, such as taking action towards zero carbon. The Green Party supports Boycott Divestment and Sanctions against Israeli abuses of Palestinian human rights, which is complete contrast to the Labour Party who you actively defend the State of Israel and the abuses that currently and previously come with that. Israel~Palestine is a key issue and there is clear water between the two Parties.
4. The fourth difference is Green candidates work hard all year round to win hearts, minds and votes. No Green Councillor has had an easy journey to become a Green councillor. Usually seats are safe for one party or another, or are highly contested. Greens don't take votes for granted. In a safe Labour seat, you'll be lucky if you get one leaflet just before election time. So that's a big difference - Greens do the work.
5. The fifth difference is around equality, diversity, and inclusion. Labour has gender balance criteria enshrined, so you can get gender-balanced Red Tories rather than un-gender-balanced Blue Tories. Whereas there is encouragement within the Green Party for gender balance and racial balance, but it isn't ‘hard mandated’.
I'd just like to add in the last year I have not had to deal with a single disciplinary case against me, barely even any allegations against me. That's a complete contrast to my lived experience in the Labour Party where there were so many. I didn’t leave one hostile environment and join another. 😊
Chris Jarvis
There has been a flurry of Labour councillors over recent months who have defected from Labour to the Greens. Obviously, your pace was slightly different, because you had a window where you were Independent between, but there have been lots of instances where we've seen Labour councillors either becoming Independents and then becoming Greens or doing the switch immediately from Labour to Green. It's happening on an unprecedented scale. Defections for an elected politician is a pretty rare thing, it's a pretty big step for people to take, yet we're seeing it happening across the country where increasing numbers of Labour councillors are joining the Greens.
I wondered if you had any thoughts, as someone who has made that journey, on what this means for the future of the Green Party?
Jo Bird
Yes, it's a very exciting development. About 20 former Labour councillors are now Green councillors and have brought people with them as well. The future for the Green Party down this road is very exciting, positive and to be welcomed. Recent councillors who've joined include Councillor Ekua Bayunu, Heather Skipsted, Kevin Frea, and last month Lou Cunningham in Leeds. Matt Zarb-Cousin has joined the Green Party from the Labour Party - he used to be the spokesperson for Jeremy Corbyn.
On the Wirral, my patch, the whole dynamic has changed. It's a brilliant place to be, I'm so happy about it.
In the formerly active ‘Labour left’, about a third of those people in the 18 months, have joined the Green Party or are actively supporting Green candidates against really quite nasty Labour candidates.
A third of the former Labour left are ‘Labour loyalists’, for want of a better word. They're showing, in my opinion, their complicity in the awful stuff that Labour Party does by continuing to pay their membership money and even being active in the local Labour Party.
And a third have retired from politics altogether. That’s fair enough, that’s their choice.
Within with the Wirral Green Party, we're now putting up candidates in five target wards. We've got all-out elections in May and there's 15 candidates. Broadly, a third are former Labour, a third are long time Green members, and a third are relatively new to Party politics and have been inspired to join by the growth we have on the Wirral.
We have a big electoral test in the Wirral and other parts of the country. About half a dozen former Labour councillors are seeking re-election as Green councillors. It's never happened before. I hope we all win. Your help is welcome on the doorstep and on the stomp. Anyone who wants to get involved with former Labour councillors who are now standing as Green candidates - you will be absolutely very welcome. It's really important that we win.
To former Labour Party members who are unsure about the Greens, I would say: check your facts, have a look at the Green website, listen to what your Green leaders are saying. You'll hear them supporting striking frontline workers. I would say talk to your local Green councillors and have that conversation, see what they say to your concerns.
To long time existing Green Party members, I would say: be kind to incoming Labour members. We are very motivated by justice, and we've been some through some hardcore political trauma. We’re hurting, but we want justice to win out. Some of our comrades died with malicious allegations hanging over them. It's been awful what we've endured within the Labour Party.
Like with welcoming refugees, treat us well, give us information, give us access to integration, and we'll pay back your generosity many times over. We'll grow the Green Party in all kinds of directions. Thanks.
Chris Jarvis
A beautiful note to finish on. Rosie has asked, do you have any thoughts on what local Green Party activists can do to help encourage and welcome more disenchanted left Labour councillors over to the Greens?
Jo Bird
Well firstly keep doing what you're doing: putting out the Green messages and winning elections. Chris, your election in 2021 was inspiring for me and other people. You won election against Labour’s Luke Akehurst of We Believe in Israel. You won at the ballot box.
Plus keep the door open for when people are ready to make an approach. Make those approaches yourselves as well, when you think it's appropriate. For example, there are a number of people who have been removed as candidates and they may be interested in joining and standing. One of the key bottlenecks for the Green Party is the shortage of candidates. So you will be looking for people who you think would make a good Green candidate. A lot of them are no longer in the Labour Party.
Chris Jarvis
Rosie's got a follow-up question for you, which is what should we be doing to make sure that if councillor does defect, that we support them properly? I guess both in terms of their elected position, because if they defect from a Labour Party, one of the experiences that a lot of ex-Labour councillors have is the viciousness and the vitriol of people who are still in the Labour Party. But also to get them re-elected as a Green.
Jo Bird
Actions speak louder than words. Such as accepting people as Green members that have signed up to Green values and principles, and treating us as equal members like anybody else.
We want to be actively defended like anyone else. It doesn't have to be very wordy. Just that they're part of the Green Party now.
When I joined the Green Party, Labour councillors stood up at a full Council meeting and called on me to resign and call a by-election. Whereas when other Labour councillors had resigned and gone Independent, they stood up and applauded them. It's very selective who they support and who they don't support. It's very hypocritical.
People who live in my ward who elected me, not a single one of them called for me to resign and call a by-election. They were more than happy to put me to the test at the next local election. My experience in the Green Party is massively positive. When there are concerns they're talked about, when there's something to do we do it together.
Chris Jarvis
Thank you so much Jo for joining us today. It's been an absolute pleasure.